Comments on: Dr. Hanna Katan: Large Families,Yes. Demanding Careers for Mothers, No. http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/ A community about parenting, Judaism, and Israeli living. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:53:06 +0000 hourly 1 By: Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-11232 Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:56:13 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-11232 I am sorry I did not re-read the last part of your E-mail, Lea and I sincerely understand how difficult a loss like a late miscarriage is This is one of the circumstances where a woman often wants a "tikun" and tries to have another child afterwards, even if just for "the victory of life over death" Nobody is trying to "limit" you or another woman, just saying that one should be happy with their lot if it sometimes stops at 8 and not 9 for physiological reasons (like age...) and not try to force things (with fertility treatments) Even women after a whole bunch of C section are allowed to have more if all is fine on the health level. Just not endanger the mother for that 9th baby! I am sorry I did not re-read the last part of your E-mail, Lea
and I sincerely understand how difficult a loss like a late miscarriage is
This is one of the circumstances where a woman often wants a “tikun” and tries to have another child afterwards, even if just for “the victory of life over death”
Nobody is trying to “limit” you or another woman, just saying that one should be happy with their lot if it sometimes stops at 8 and not 9 for physiological reasons (like age…) and not try to force things (with fertility treatments) Even women after a whole bunch of C section are allowed to have more if all is fine on the health level. Just not endanger the mother for that 9th baby!

]]> By: Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-11231 Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:49:34 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-11231 About "the woman with 8 children crying for her 9th", there is a difference between "being happy to have another one= not use birth control" and "crying= seeking fertiltiy treatments!" which means eventually getting risk for multiple pregnancy and heavy hormonal treatments, also not devoided of risks.... I see women who are busy running for blood tests and ultra-sounds for "fertility" when they have 7 kids at home and their last one is only 2 yo, I personally think it is crazy!!! Maybe it is not peer pressure but then it is psychologically unbalanced. I repeat that I am all for ladies for have many kids naturally and all is fine, my record is a patient with 17 children, not one miscarriage, she was looking great and well kept, and she sounded surprised that I did not scream at her like most other doctors "it is too much! you have to stop!" she was 45 yo and in perfect health, the only problem is that last kid was Down Sd but she handled that as well.... About “the woman with 8 children crying for her 9th”, there is a difference between “being happy to have another one= not use birth control” and “crying= seeking fertiltiy treatments!” which means eventually getting risk for multiple pregnancy and heavy hormonal treatments, also not devoided of risks…. I see women who are busy running for blood tests and ultra-sounds for “fertility” when they have 7 kids at home and their last one is only 2 yo, I personally think it is crazy!!! Maybe it is not peer pressure but then it is psychologically unbalanced.
I repeat that I am all for ladies for have many kids naturally and all is fine, my record is a patient with 17 children, not one miscarriage, she was looking great and well kept, and she sounded surprised that I did not scream at her like most other doctors “it is too much! you have to stop!” she was 45 yo and in perfect health, the only problem is that last kid was Down Sd but she handled that as well….

]]> By: Leah http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-11227 Leah Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:22:51 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-11227 This is an interesting thread. I think that not only is each woman different, but that each pregnancy is different! After 6 vaginal births I ended up with placenta previa and a transverse position of the baby. The previa resolved a week before my due-date, and the baby assumed the head-down position. But when I came to deliver, he had returned to transverse. After an external version, he went into distress and I ended up with an emergency c-section (6 minutes total from leaving the room to the baby's birth). As far as attachment parenting, not only do my husband and I 'wear' the baby, but the 20 year old son, the 17 year old daughter, and so on. The baby gets LOTS of touch and comfort -- certainly more than #3 did! I don't think that peer pressure is pushing a woman of 8 to wish for 9. After 6 I had a serious miscarriage at 20+ weeks, and mourned that loss. People are not widgets, so just because you have 6 doesn't mean you 'collected the whole set.' If you really believe that the presence of a new person in your life is G-dly, and a gift, then you do want more (even if there are circumstances that make that impossible). This is an interesting thread. I think that not only is each woman different, but that each pregnancy is different! After 6 vaginal births I ended up with placenta previa and a transverse position of the baby. The previa resolved a week before my due-date, and the baby assumed the head-down position. But when I came to deliver, he had returned to transverse. After an external version, he went into distress and I ended up with an emergency c-section (6 minutes total from leaving the room to the baby’s birth).
As far as attachment parenting, not only do my husband and I ‘wear’ the baby, but the 20 year old son, the 17 year old daughter, and so on. The baby gets LOTS of touch and comfort — certainly more than #3 did!
I don’t think that peer pressure is pushing a woman of 8 to wish for 9. After 6 I had a serious miscarriage at 20+ weeks, and mourned that loss. People are not widgets, so just because you have 6 doesn’t mean you ‘collected the whole set.’ If you really believe that the presence of a new person in your life is G-dly, and a gift, then you do want more (even if there are circumstances that make that impossible).

]]> By: mominisrael http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7308 mominisrael Sun, 03 May 2009 03:33:53 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7308 Dr. Schreiber, Thanks for stopping by and sharing your perspective. No one has mentioned gallstones,which are more common in 'grand multiparas.' Dr. Schreiber,
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your perspective. No one has mentioned gallstones,which are more common in ‘grand multiparas.’

]]> By: Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7305 Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber Sat, 02 May 2009 23:06:22 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7305 Fully agree with Dr Hana Katan: since both being a mother and being a doctor are very demanding if you want to do it right, they are hardly compatible... It is possible though but then exhausting and with a lot of self-sacrifice and still remaining doubts and guilt feelings (I know since I am a friend and collegue of hers) About grand multiparas (women with more than 5 children) each case is individual: I have seen patients with 12 children and perfect health, well taken care of bodies, nice and happy families, all OK while some with 3 children are devastated bodies with zillion pregnancy-related complications. Here too we are not born equal, some are "made for having children" for some others it is excruciating to either get pregnant or keep the pregnancy or deliver.... As a rule one of the major risk factor is age (and when it is your 12th you are usually over 40) and obesity (diabetes, hypertension and need for Cesarean then increase tremendously... But a first mother at the age of 45 is also high risk pregnancy and delivery. As for the mother of 8 who cries for a 9th I think there is a lot of peer pressure in the religious circles and it is sad that a woman should feel she is worth something only if pregnant.... In any case she should look at the (more than) half glass full (8 kids) rather than the empty part (her "need for a 9th) Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber Fully agree with Dr Hana Katan: since both being a mother and being a doctor are very demanding if you want to do it right, they are hardly compatible… It is possible though but then exhausting and with a lot of self-sacrifice and still remaining doubts and guilt feelings (I know since I am a friend and collegue of hers)
About grand multiparas (women with more than 5 children) each case is individual: I have seen patients with 12 children and perfect health, well taken care of bodies, nice and happy families, all OK while some with 3 children are devastated bodies with zillion pregnancy-related complications. Here too we are not born equal, some are “made for having children” for some others it is excruciating to either get pregnant or keep the pregnancy or deliver…. As a rule one of the major risk factor is age (and when it is your 12th you are usually over 40) and obesity (diabetes, hypertension and need for Cesarean then increase tremendously… But a first mother at the age of 45 is also high risk pregnancy and delivery.
As for the mother of 8 who cries for a 9th I think there is a lot of peer pressure in the religious circles and it is sad that a woman should feel she is worth something only if pregnant…. In any case she should look at the (more than) half glass full (8 kids) rather than the empty part (her “need for a 9th)
Dr Hava-Yael Schreiber

]]> By: mominisrael http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7195 mominisrael Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:48:09 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7195 Shosh, is this in general or for yourself? Shosh, is this in general or for yourself?

]]> By: Shosh http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7194 Shosh Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:38:03 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7194 Does anyone have any thoughts on pregnancy at45? Does anyone have any thoughts on pregnancy at45?

]]> By: Maya Norton http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7023 Maya Norton Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:30:43 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7023 "...While they pushed pitocin on me mercilessly (the doctor, not the midwives) they had a lot of opportunities to remind me that this was my 6th baby. They must have mentioned it half a dozen times." Just in case you forgot. Lovely. “…While they pushed pitocin on me mercilessly (the doctor, not the midwives) they had a lot of opportunities to remind me that this was my 6th baby. They must have mentioned it half a dozen times.”

Just in case you forgot. Lovely.

]]> By: mominisrael http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7022 mominisrael Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:26:28 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7022 Oh, and I can't recall any health professional telling me to wait a year before getting pregnant again, or bringing up the issue at all. Oh, and I can’t recall any health professional telling me to wait a year before getting pregnant again, or bringing up the issue at all.

]]> By: mominisrael http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/04/16/dr-hanna-katan-large-familiesyes-demanding-careers-for-mothers-no/comment-page-1/#comment-7021 mominisrael Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:24:58 +0000 http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=1177#comment-7021 They wouldn't let me give birth in the "natural birthing room" because it was my 6th. And while I was waiting the long hours for my contractions to catch up to my ruptured membranes (with meconium), while they pushed pitocin on me mercilessly (the doctor, not the midwives) they had a lot of opportunities to remind me that this was my 6th baby. They must have mentioned it half a dozen times. They wouldn’t let me give birth in the “natural birthing room” because it was my 6th. And while I was waiting the long hours for my contractions to catch up to my ruptured membranes (with meconium), while they pushed pitocin on me mercilessly (the doctor, not the midwives) they had a lot of opportunities to remind me that this was my 6th baby. They must have mentioned it half a dozen times.

]]>