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	<title>Comments on: In Defense of Israeli &#8220;Rudeness&#8221;</title>
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	<description>A community about parenting, Judaism, and Israeli living.</description>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-2/#comment-10139</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-10139</guid>
		<description>American manners have steadily declined over the years.  We&#039;re always complaining here now about the parents who don&#039;t discipline their children (in movies or restaurants).  That&#039;s a different issue, though, than the issue of how adults treat each other during normal, everyday situations.  Here, we always cringe when we see how rude customers treats shop keepers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American manners have steadily declined over the years.  We&#8217;re always complaining here now about the parents who don&#8217;t discipline their children (in movies or restaurants).  That&#8217;s a different issue, though, than the issue of how adults treat each other during normal, everyday situations.  Here, we always cringe when we see how rude customers treats shop keepers.</p>
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		<title>By: jjoe</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-2/#comment-10027</link>
		<dc:creator>jjoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-10027</guid>
		<description>For me, being rude is being inconsiderate and behaving as if you are the only person in the world and everyone else is here for your pleasure.

By that measure Americans are very rude - some American tourists will stop you in the street and ask directions or interrogate you for 15 minutes about the country and its history - and not thank you for your time or even ask if you have the time.

Currently a group of Australian Jews in their twenties have moved in opposite me - and I have never had worse neighbors- they are basically drunk from noon till after midnight, hear music loudly and shout all the time, turning a very quiet street into hell. We have talked to them repeatedly to no effect and many others have called the police - nothing helps. Australians are really rude.

Talking loudly on cellphones on the bus or in coffe shops, or hearing music loudly in public places and singing along is also rude and as far as I can tell this happens in the States as much or more as it happens in Israel.
The amount of selfish, inconsiderate behavior in America is truly astounding.

I have met rude people from many countries, including France, Spain and Italy.Germans are not rude - they just  politely, and in an orderly manner, exterminate your people.

In short, Israelis are rude, but not more so than other peoples in the West.

On the other hand, the amount of Hessed here is astounding - Israel has the highest rate of donations to charity, per capita, than any other country in the world and if you are in trouble, someone will rise to the occasion.

If you are poor or weak or old or a minority - Israeli society will treat you better than any other country.Not perfectly - better.
Yes, even Arabs - you may have noticed that many Arabs are trying to get in to Israel to live here (probably the real reason the fence was built in the West Bank), but how many are leaving Israel for the &quot;good life&quot; in other Arab countries? 


For all its supposed rudeness, Israel has yet to conduct a war of extermination on another people (the United Nation &quot;Human Rights&quot; Commission reports and declarations not withstanding)or drop an atomic bomb on another country?
The supposedly polite American and Europeans have done just that.

So, looking at the big picture, Israeli rudeness and general conduct compares very well with the rest of the West, in my opinion. 

That said, line jumping here is epidemic and I hate it, but I guess I have to take the good with the bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, being rude is being inconsiderate and behaving as if you are the only person in the world and everyone else is here for your pleasure.</p>
<p>By that measure Americans are very rude &#8211; some American tourists will stop you in the street and ask directions or interrogate you for 15 minutes about the country and its history &#8211; and not thank you for your time or even ask if you have the time.</p>
<p>Currently a group of Australian Jews in their twenties have moved in opposite me &#8211; and I have never had worse neighbors- they are basically drunk from noon till after midnight, hear music loudly and shout all the time, turning a very quiet street into hell. We have talked to them repeatedly to no effect and many others have called the police &#8211; nothing helps. Australians are really rude.</p>
<p>Talking loudly on cellphones on the bus or in coffe shops, or hearing music loudly in public places and singing along is also rude and as far as I can tell this happens in the States as much or more as it happens in Israel.<br />
The amount of selfish, inconsiderate behavior in America is truly astounding.</p>
<p>I have met rude people from many countries, including France, Spain and Italy.Germans are not rude &#8211; they just  politely, and in an orderly manner, exterminate your people.</p>
<p>In short, Israelis are rude, but not more so than other peoples in the West.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the amount of Hessed here is astounding &#8211; Israel has the highest rate of donations to charity, per capita, than any other country in the world and if you are in trouble, someone will rise to the occasion.</p>
<p>If you are poor or weak or old or a minority &#8211; Israeli society will treat you better than any other country.Not perfectly &#8211; better.<br />
Yes, even Arabs &#8211; you may have noticed that many Arabs are trying to get in to Israel to live here (probably the real reason the fence was built in the West Bank), but how many are leaving Israel for the &#8220;good life&#8221; in other Arab countries? </p>
<p>For all its supposed rudeness, Israel has yet to conduct a war of extermination on another people (the United Nation &#8220;Human Rights&#8221; Commission reports and declarations not withstanding)or drop an atomic bomb on another country?<br />
The supposedly polite American and Europeans have done just that.</p>
<p>So, looking at the big picture, Israeli rudeness and general conduct compares very well with the rest of the West, in my opinion. </p>
<p>That said, line jumping here is epidemic and I hate it, but I guess I have to take the good with the bad.</p>
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		<title>By: aliyah06</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-2/#comment-10012</link>
		<dc:creator>aliyah06</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-10012</guid>
		<description>I lived in the U.S. for 50+ years. I&#039;ve lived in Israel for a bit over 3 years. The experiences I&#039;ve had are mine and may differ from yours.

The rudest, meanest, most self-centered children I&#039;ve ever met were in California--products of what most Americans would consider privileged upbringings.

The politest, most compassionate children I have ever met were in Japan and in Israel.

If you bring me a cake, I will say thank you and offer you coffee -- but that doesn&#039;t give you the right to criticize my cooking and reorganize my kitchen. Likewise, I will gladly say &quot;thank you&quot; to anyone who wants to help support and defend my country. OTOH, I am offended that anyone who does so feels that it is okay to dictate to me, whether about my political positions, my society, or my child-raising. 

Americans are also individually and collectively some of the most confrontational people in the world--and usually see nothing wrong with that. At an office function, a man groped me under the table so I picked up a fork and stuck it in his hand while announcing at the top of my lungs that I didn&#039;t want his (expletive deleted) hand on my body and if he didn&#039;t remove it immediately, I would insert the fork somewhere more painful. I&#039;m not sure if pain, threat or embarassment caused him to leave so abruptly....Americans do things like bomb Afghanistan into rubble because the Afghans were dumb enough to invoke tribal custom in protecting a terrorist mass murderer. I&#039;m old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was pretty rude and confrontational--&quot;move your nukes off the island or we nuke YOU.&quot;

Given the current political climate, I&#039;m not sure &quot;confrontational&quot; is a negative, whether in the international arena or dealing with gropers and line-jumpers.

Americans smile too much out of reflex, even when they don&#039;t mean it, and then think Israelis aren&#039;t friendly because we don&#039;t smile so often. Americans think fake politeness is good manners whereas Israelis think its just a form of lying. Israelis are abrupt to the point of painfulness but think they&#039;re treating you as an equal and as an adult. Hebrew lends itself to that kind of bluntness of expression that the English language can sidestep through synonyms and evasions.

But Israel is also a place where people will gather to help someone who has fallen in the street whereas America is a place where people will step over you while you&#039;re dying.

I&#039;ll take Israel, even with the bluntness and directness which too many Westerners mistake for rudeness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived in the U.S. for 50+ years. I&#8217;ve lived in Israel for a bit over 3 years. The experiences I&#8217;ve had are mine and may differ from yours.</p>
<p>The rudest, meanest, most self-centered children I&#8217;ve ever met were in California&#8211;products of what most Americans would consider privileged upbringings.</p>
<p>The politest, most compassionate children I have ever met were in Japan and in Israel.</p>
<p>If you bring me a cake, I will say thank you and offer you coffee &#8212; but that doesn&#8217;t give you the right to criticize my cooking and reorganize my kitchen. Likewise, I will gladly say &#8220;thank you&#8221; to anyone who wants to help support and defend my country. OTOH, I am offended that anyone who does so feels that it is okay to dictate to me, whether about my political positions, my society, or my child-raising. </p>
<p>Americans are also individually and collectively some of the most confrontational people in the world&#8211;and usually see nothing wrong with that. At an office function, a man groped me under the table so I picked up a fork and stuck it in his hand while announcing at the top of my lungs that I didn&#8217;t want his (expletive deleted) hand on my body and if he didn&#8217;t remove it immediately, I would insert the fork somewhere more painful. I&#8217;m not sure if pain, threat or embarassment caused him to leave so abruptly&#8230;.Americans do things like bomb Afghanistan into rubble because the Afghans were dumb enough to invoke tribal custom in protecting a terrorist mass murderer. I&#8217;m old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was pretty rude and confrontational&#8211;&#8221;move your nukes off the island or we nuke YOU.&#8221;</p>
<p>Given the current political climate, I&#8217;m not sure &#8220;confrontational&#8221; is a negative, whether in the international arena or dealing with gropers and line-jumpers.</p>
<p>Americans smile too much out of reflex, even when they don&#8217;t mean it, and then think Israelis aren&#8217;t friendly because we don&#8217;t smile so often. Americans think fake politeness is good manners whereas Israelis think its just a form of lying. Israelis are abrupt to the point of painfulness but think they&#8217;re treating you as an equal and as an adult. Hebrew lends itself to that kind of bluntness of expression that the English language can sidestep through synonyms and evasions.</p>
<p>But Israel is also a place where people will gather to help someone who has fallen in the street whereas America is a place where people will step over you while you&#8217;re dying.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll take Israel, even with the bluntness and directness which too many Westerners mistake for rudeness.</p>
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		<title>By: Abbi</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-2/#comment-10009</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-10009</guid>
		<description>Fern, 

You really didn&#039;t get my point. Everyone in Israel serves in the military or has family that serve in the military. Even a large chunk of charedim have family that serve. Again, a cultural factor that you completely don&#039;t understand.

I&#039;d like to point out that the intentional murder rate in Israel is 1.87, while in the U.S it&#039;s 5.8, right between Kenya and Turkey. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

If the U.S. is so &quot;polite&quot; why do so many of its citizens feel the need to murder each other? (especially so many more citizens than mean old Israel?)

I think the larger point is, if you&#039;re not living here and actually building Israeli society, your criticism as a diaspora Jew, even if it&#039;s constructive and even if there&#039;s a point, means very little.

When you come here and take part in building our society, it will mean a lot more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fern, </p>
<p>You really didn&#8217;t get my point. Everyone in Israel serves in the military or has family that serve in the military. Even a large chunk of charedim have family that serve. Again, a cultural factor that you completely don&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to point out that the intentional murder rate in Israel is 1.87, while in the U.S it&#8217;s 5.8, right between Kenya and Turkey. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate</a></p>
<p>If the U.S. is so &#8220;polite&#8221; why do so many of its citizens feel the need to murder each other? (especially so many more citizens than mean old Israel?)</p>
<p>I think the larger point is, if you&#8217;re not living here and actually building Israeli society, your criticism as a diaspora Jew, even if it&#8217;s constructive and even if there&#8217;s a point, means very little.</p>
<p>When you come here and take part in building our society, it will mean a lot more.</p>
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		<title>By: mother in israel</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-1/#comment-10001</link>
		<dc:creator>mother in israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-10001</guid>
		<description>Thanks to everyone for taking the time to explain their perspective. 
ra--Thank you for visiting. I&#039;m embarrassed about the behavior of my compatriots in your country.
Offwinger--thanks for your visit. Yes, that is definitely a factor. 
Israelis will never be as &quot;well-mannered&quot; as North Americans. There are different cultural norms and expectations in each place.
I hope we can all understand each other a little better, even if we don&#039;t always like what we see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to everyone for taking the time to explain their perspective.<br />
ra&#8211;Thank you for visiting. I&#8217;m embarrassed about the behavior of my compatriots in your country.<br />
Offwinger&#8211;thanks for your visit. Yes, that is definitely a factor.<br />
Israelis will never be as &#8220;well-mannered&#8221; as North Americans. There are different cultural norms and expectations in each place.<br />
I hope we can all understand each other a little better, even if we don&#8217;t always like what we see.</p>
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		<title>By: Fern @ Life on the Balcony</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-1/#comment-9999</link>
		<dc:creator>Fern @ Life on the Balcony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-9999</guid>
		<description>Abbi--I don&#039;t think the larger context of Israeli society justifies some of the rude behavior Israelis partake in, which is the point I tried to make in my first comment on this post. It&#039;s just a cop out for bad behavior. The scenario you set up is a red herring. First, the only two choices are not fake politeness or rudeness from an Israeli that has served in the military. And second, the rudeness that pervades Israeli society is not limited to people who have seen combat, or even served in the military at all.

I would hope that Israelis resist letting the evil people who would gladly murder them dictate how Israelis act. They should go to an extra effort to act civilized in the midst of the chaos that swirls around Israel as an act of defiance. As the ultimate &quot;screw you&quot; to those countries who want to destroy Israel.

In contrast to what Trudy reported about her fears of what tourists must think, the most common thing I hear from people who didn&#039;t know very much about Israel before visiting is pure amazement that Israelis carry on such normal lives. In my opinion, the more Israelis live normal lives, with behavior that is &quot;normal&quot; (and by that I don&#039;t mean America-clones) and not shaped by their existential circumstances, the more they will be able to positively impact visitors and win over new friends and allies. Not to mention that Israelis will enjoy life more when they receive good customer service, interact with polite children, are treated respectfully on the bus, etc, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abbi&#8211;I don&#8217;t think the larger context of Israeli society justifies some of the rude behavior Israelis partake in, which is the point I tried to make in my first comment on this post. It&#8217;s just a cop out for bad behavior. The scenario you set up is a red herring. First, the only two choices are not fake politeness or rudeness from an Israeli that has served in the military. And second, the rudeness that pervades Israeli society is not limited to people who have seen combat, or even served in the military at all.</p>
<p>I would hope that Israelis resist letting the evil people who would gladly murder them dictate how Israelis act. They should go to an extra effort to act civilized in the midst of the chaos that swirls around Israel as an act of defiance. As the ultimate &#8220;screw you&#8221; to those countries who want to destroy Israel.</p>
<p>In contrast to what Trudy reported about her fears of what tourists must think, the most common thing I hear from people who didn&#8217;t know very much about Israel before visiting is pure amazement that Israelis carry on such normal lives. In my opinion, the more Israelis live normal lives, with behavior that is &#8220;normal&#8221; (and by that I don&#8217;t mean America-clones) and not shaped by their existential circumstances, the more they will be able to positively impact visitors and win over new friends and allies. Not to mention that Israelis will enjoy life more when they receive good customer service, interact with polite children, are treated respectfully on the bus, etc, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Abbi</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-1/#comment-9989</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-9989</guid>
		<description>Fern

I&#039;d rather take rudeness from someone who has risked their own life and/or the lives of their family members to defend me (so really, they do care about me deep down) and then fake greetings from someone who really deep down couldn&#039;t care less about me.

Context is everything. The original commenter was not willing to see the rudeness in the larger context of Israeli society. If you live here long enough, you understand it and learn to work around it and even manage to change it for some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fern</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather take rudeness from someone who has risked their own life and/or the lives of their family members to defend me (so really, they do care about me deep down) and then fake greetings from someone who really deep down couldn&#8217;t care less about me.</p>
<p>Context is everything. The original commenter was not willing to see the rudeness in the larger context of Israeli society. If you live here long enough, you understand it and learn to work around it and even manage to change it for some.</p>
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		<title>By: Abbi</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-1/#comment-9987</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-9987</guid>
		<description>Trilcat: Hmm, guilty as charged. Someone did once ask me for $20 in NYC and promised he would pay it back (!) and of course I believed him. So I opened my wallet and gave it to him. 

Surprisingly, I didn&#039;t ever see that money come back...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trilcat: Hmm, guilty as charged. Someone did once ask me for $20 in NYC and promised he would pay it back (!) and of course I believed him. So I opened my wallet and gave it to him. </p>
<p>Surprisingly, I didn&#8217;t ever see that money come back&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fern @ Life on the Balcony</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-1/#comment-9984</link>
		<dc:creator>Fern @ Life on the Balcony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-9984</guid>
		<description>And for the record, I find East Coast American culture to be on the rude side too. In my experience, Bostonians would run over their grandmother to get ahead on the highway, and New Yorkers seem to have no filter, if they think something it comes out of their mouth. And my own West Coast culture is completely devoid of modesty in any sense of the word. It is perfectly normal here to dress pre-teen girls in shorts that barely cover their tush (and I don&#039;t even want to talk about what adults wear), share too much private information, and brag inappropriately about one&#039;s children.

Anyway, I think every group has picked up on some bad habits that need attention. It&#039;s not just Israelis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And for the record, I find East Coast American culture to be on the rude side too. In my experience, Bostonians would run over their grandmother to get ahead on the highway, and New Yorkers seem to have no filter, if they think something it comes out of their mouth. And my own West Coast culture is completely devoid of modesty in any sense of the word. It is perfectly normal here to dress pre-teen girls in shorts that barely cover their tush (and I don&#8217;t even want to talk about what adults wear), share too much private information, and brag inappropriately about one&#8217;s children.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think every group has picked up on some bad habits that need attention. It&#8217;s not just Israelis.</p>
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		<title>By: Fern @ Life on the Balcony</title>
		<link>http://www.amotherinisrael.com/2009/11/08/defense-israeli-rudeness/comment-page-1/#comment-9982</link>
		<dc:creator>Fern @ Life on the Balcony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amotherinisrael.com/?p=2152#comment-9982</guid>
		<description>&quot;I wish Americans would stop acting fake friendly and making fake greetings at the entrance to every store, but I can’t see that changing any time soon either.&quot;

Fake politeness is a hell of a lot better than real rudeness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wish Americans would stop acting fake friendly and making fake greetings at the entrance to every store, but I can’t see that changing any time soon either.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fake politeness is a hell of a lot better than real rudeness.</p>
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