A Mother in Israel » tzniut

Edah Charedit Claims, Currently Against Shalim

mother in israel — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:20:50 +0000

According to Bechadrei Charedim, the Edah Charedit denies being behind the newest posters I reported on earlier.. Actually the posters were not so new. They are six years old, and some of the signatories have passed on.

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Jewish Face-Covering Women Request New School

mother in israel — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:17:00 +0000

Photo via Hadrei Haredim

I had hoped that with the arrest of Bruria Keren, the trend of face-covering among Jewish women would die out. But according to the website Hadrei Haredim, a growing group of women consider face-covering to be halacha (Jewish law) and convince others to follow. These women can be found in Beit Shemesh, Jerusalem and Elad.

Hadrei Haredim also reported that the religious court of the Edah Charedit in Jerusalem has received several requests by husbands to rule against the veils, which the wives wear without their approval.

It appears that at least some of the husbands support their wives on this issue, because twenty families in Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet have threatened to pull their children out of the cheder (charedi boys’ elementary yeshiva) because the wives of the rebbes (rabbi-teachers) do not wear veils and presumably set a bad example.

There are reports of girls not able to attend high school because they are harassed over the veils, and of very young girls with their faces covered.

Hat tip: Rafi of Life in Israel.

Related:

Hyper-Tzniut Fashions for Young Girls

Burkas: The New Fashion

Haredi Women Advised to Sit Separately from the Less Modestly Dressed

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Children of Short-Skirt Wearers Threatened in Bnei Brak

mother in israel — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:19:04 +0000

Separate Yourselves!

Remember the sign in Neve Yaakov, warning mothers not to sit next to immodestly dressed women in the playground? Today Rafi published a photograph of a pashkevil (wall poster) in Bnei Brak, urging people to “distinguish” themselves from “throwing-off-the-yoke-shortening-the-clothes” women.

The injunctions:

? Stay far from their company
? Don’t accept their children to (educational) institutions
? Protest against them.

The poster also provides a handy-dandy fax number to transmit information about these “yoke-throwing-off” families, so their names can be passed on to rabbis and institutions. An organization called “Power of the Public” is named at the bottom.

Related posts:

Interview with a Former Kannai

Pashkevilim: Anti-Establishment Jerusalem Wall Posters

Burkas: The New Fashion

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Exclusive: Official Haredi Guide to Modest Necklines

mother in israel — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:15:00 +0000

Haredi Guidelines for Neckline Tzniut

This document is entitled: “Common Pitfalls Regarding Necklines.” At the bottom (cut off) it reads: These pages have been viewed by Rabbi Nissim Karelitz Shlit”a and Rabbi Moshe Shaul Klein Shlit”a from the rabbinic court of Rabbi Vozner Shlit”a.*

You can see common Israeli neckline styles here. The rabbis who signed off on the above document hold by stringencies not observed by all camps in the Orthodox community. Rabbis from the national religious community are more lenient about how much to expose, but none would permit a plunging necking or decolletage.

Of the 22 pictures, the first twelve are labelled “Not Kosher”:

1-3, 5: The neckhole is too open.
4: The neckhole needs to be above the necklace at the sides. [To judge the neckline, a woman wears a chain around her neck. The back and sides of the collar or outfit must cover her skin to the point just above where the chain lies on her neck. As pictured, a boat neckline exposes too much.]
6: The wide neckhole is not covered by the scarf, according to Jewish law.
7: From the back. The opening must be closed with a zipper.
8: A safety pin should be added to the top button, which does not cover according to law.
9-10: The shoulder bag pulls the collar and exposes the shoulder.
11: The neck is covered in front according to law, but not the sides.
12: The dickey (libit) is too low and does not cover properly.

Thirteen through eighteen, inside the central hexagon, are kosher:

13: The dickey (libit) covers according to Jewish law.
14: Closed according to Jewish law.
15: The neck opening is slightly higher than the chain.
16-18: The neckline is closed according to Jewish law.

Nineteen through twenty-two are pictures of views from the back (hard to tell when there are no faces visible).

19: Not kosher, the neckhole is too open.
20: Kosher, the neckhole covers according to Jewish law.
21: Not kosher, the neckhole is under the chain.
22: Kosher, the neckhole is above the chain.

Please keep comments respectful.

*Shlit”a: An acronym meaning “May he live a good and long life.”

Update: G6 left the following comment:
The document you posted is certainly the strictest stance and many very frum, yeshivish, right wing rabbonim would NOT agree that all these stringencies are required.

I would suggest that everyone consult their own posek (rabbinic authority) instead of imposing (possibly unnecessary) restrictions upon themselves based on an internet posting.

G6, there are people who are looking for more stringencies, but this is not the strictest opinion. I have seen sources quoted for covering the neck entirely.

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Thoughts on Face-Covering from Resident of Arab Emirates

mother in israel — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:00:00 +0000

“Autumn” left the following comment on the “Burka Wedding” post, in response to a comment by Ora:

Ora wrote:
“I think there’s a big problem with covering the face. It’s dehumanizing. I don’t know what research, if any, has been done on the subject, but I would think that not seeing a someone’s face would make it easier to beat or otherwise abuse them.”

Autumn:
I agree with this, also it allows those with covered face to get away with rude behavior as well. I live in a Gulf Arab Country and a lot of women choose to cover their face with either a niqab (which can also be called a burqa – or ninja style as others like to call it) or a full veil. I have noticed that many (but of course not all) of these women are some of the rudest when it comes to things like waiting politely in line for something, they push in front of others etc. I am guessing that this is because of the anonymity that having their face lends them – they can’t be held accountable as a person for their actions. They can do something rude to someone, and if they seem them the next day, can walk by them without even being recognized and therefore held to account for their actions. Anyway, this is just my observation and these are women who probably did not choose the veil, it just is the norm for their families. So this is a danger to watch out for if it becomes the norm for certain communities – that it creates a detachment of a person from their own actions. Kind of like if one is invisible.

I think that people who choose to impose this on themselves (don’t grow up with it as a norm) have a whole other set of problems.

One thing that struck me from the interviews with these women was how one of them talked about how she feels like a princess when she goes out completely covered. This is identical to how converts (or “reverts” as they like to call themselves) to Islam who embrace the niqab or the full face veil speak about how they feel. There is one convert who who talks about how she wishes she could live in Saudi Arabia so she could be completely separated from men, (have separate elevators, etc.) she also refrains from speaking to men. She feels she is more respected by men, etc., and she feels good that her friend’s husband will not try to speak to her because of the way she dresses but will talk to her other friends who only wear the normal hijab (headscarf). This woman will not allow men to comment on her blog because she feels that even communicating with them that way (though they can’t see her or even hear her voice) is wrong. Another interesting thing that I noted about these converts is that most of them have had some traumatic experience or suffered from abuse – often sexual in nature – (which is known to result in a hate of one’s self or one’s own body.) I think there are always some sort of psychological issues when people choose / embrace extreme restrictions to the point of hampering their own ability to function. Not being able to see clearly, or not being able to talk to people including one’s own family, encumbering oneself with too many articles of clothing can all be quite problematic.

By the way I am not Jewish, but I found this article and discussion very interesting and I hope you don’t mind me commenting..

You also might be interested to know that I came across your blog because one of the muslim women’s blogs posted a link to it – not this article but the one about the Jewish soldiers helping the Palestinian smugglers..
Autumn | 01.07.09 – 12:39 pm | #

Autumn, thank you for your thought-provoking comments. I didn’t realize that a Muslim blog had linked here–it didn’t show up in my statistics.

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Tzniut fashions hit Tel Aviv?

mother in israel — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:07:00 +0000

I figure the dress in this picture would fit in well in Bnei Brak:

But the advertisement appeared on the front page of Haaretz‘s Gallery section.

Without sticking out your behind,
Without pulling in your stomach,
Without dressing short,
Without dressing tight,
Without a pushup, without stiletto [heels], without giggling, without winking, without veiled looks, without appearing hungry, without hiding intelligence.

SEXY (Seksit)
Without operating instructions.

The copy is over the top, but it seems that religious women aren’t the only ones having a hard time finding clothes. Anyway that outfit sure beats these.

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Links on tzniut, hospitality

mother in israel — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:44:00 +0000

Haveil Havalim #188 is up at What War Zone.
More on women’s dress at Trilcat, and a response by Frumhouse.
A Shabbat meal vanishes at Israeli Kitchen.
Here’s Leora’s interview with macrobiotic commenter Klara.

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Links on tzniut, teenage maturity, nursing in public

mother in israel — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:39:00 +0000

Coming soon to this blog, bli neder: (Mis)adventures in International Travel.

In the meantime:

Have you ever felt untzniusdik when wearing a stunning Shabbat or Yom Tov outfit on the street? Wolfish Musings and Parsha Blog have the solution.

Follow-up (Hebrew) to the Modiin Azrieli Mall “nursing in public” fiasco. The management changed its policy and claims to be reeducating staff on the subject. I don’t know why the article mentions that the mother making the complaint was religious. Hat tip: Nursing in the Negev.

Can you spot a nursing mother in this picture?

Lion of Zion refers to my post on the jailed teenagers, in the context of early marriage among Jews. He writes, “As an aside, I would like to know where all the Israeli/Jewish human rights advocates were while the (minor) settlerettes sat in jail.” I believe that Yitzchak Kadman, Israel’s best-known child advocate, did speak out on the subject at the time.

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Friday links on women in Orthodoxy

mother in israel — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:05:00 +0000

First we have Josh Waxman of Parshablog with My Thoughts on Megirot I and II.

Then there’s the story of dancers forced to cover up for the Jerusalem bridge dedication ceremony. The girls, aged 6 to 13, were told to wear hats and long skirts; see this report for before and after pictures . Some parents respond here. According to this update in the JP, the organizers chose the black ski caps to make a point.

Finally, the army has been giving some teenage girls trouble about an automatic religious exemption. I wonder if any haredi girls have been hassled.

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A different kind of fashion show

mother in israel — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:10:00 +0000

Rafi of Life in Israel took these pictures at a grocery store in Beit Shemesh today, and generously allowed me to post them. (You can see his post here).

The woman is not the only one taking on extra layers; Rafi reports that the man accompanying her, presumably her husband, is wearing at least three pairs of tzitzit (ritual fringes). The little boy, though, is wearing typical “western” clothing.

Not all of the women who cover up are Keren’s followers. But this woman is not wearing the “shal” typical of many Breslover returnees to Judaism.

Compare her dress with the woman below, who does have on a “shal.”

Too bad Rafi and his wife didn’t get an interview. . .

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