Local Kabbalah Cult?

Kabbalah Center or Cult?

Kabbalah Center or Cult?

“So who is moving into Kiryat Matalon as the older people die out?” I ask the woman I met in the park (let’s call her P). P has just explained that Kiryat Matalon, her upscale neighborhood at the western entrance of Petach Tikvah, no longer has enough kids to justify its own elementary school.

“The private houses are expensive,” P answers. “So the survivors divide them up into rental units. Do you know that storefront on Jabotinsky Street, Kabbalah La’am? The members of that group snatch up all the available rentals.”

“Really?” Whenever I go by the place seems deserted.

“Yes. If you go out at 3am, you see thousands of men headed there, from my neighborhood, Tel Aviv, and other cities. Many are celebrities–singers, models. . .”

This conversation is starting to ring a bell. A year or two ago I saw a response by Rav Aviner to a question about learning kabbalah. He warned the writer about a group claiming to teach kabbalah that is really a cult. His reponse included a former member’s testimony, which appears here. If the testimony is accurate Kabbalah Laam, also known as Bnei Baruch, has all the characteristics of a cult: late-night brainwashing, a charismatic leader, large charitable “contributions,” gradual initiation into an inner circle, secrecy, and ostracism of members who leave.

From the outside it seems to resemble Orthodox Judaism. The page I linked to mentions Shabbat, kashrut, niddah, modest dress for women, and kippot for men. On Sukkot and Pesach they hold huge festivals with large numbers of overseas visitors.

Nana10 has an interview with other former members of Bnei Baruch. One couple was attracted to it because, unlike others offering Jewish studies, the group didn’t object to her Italian-born husband’s non-Jewish status. (The article appears to no longer be available.)

Men are allowed to visit with their families only fifteen minutes a day. When a husband mentioned that his wife objected, his comrades told him to divorce her and get a new wife. They said “It’s like switching one cow for another.”

The woman in the park added more details, which I have no way of verifying. The newspaper article (from 2005) mentions an emphasis on skirts for women. The women in P’s neighborhood wear skirts or pants, and married women cover their hair. They stay with the kids all day through the evening; P doesn’t see fathers with the children. The men volunteer or study at the center during the evenings, and again from 3-6 AM. During Pesach and Sukkot, the men don’t see their wives at all. The women and children attend meals on Shabbat but eat separately.

Once P noticed some of the women eating on Yom Kippur. When questioned the women told her that the Jewish Torah is “shtuyot (nonsense).” They explained that they follow the kabbalah, and come from a lost tribe that had left Egypt with the Jews but never made it to Eretz Yisrael. P claims that the kabbalah center houses scrolls that look like a sefer Torah but contain a different text.

One woman from the group noticed that P’s daughter is overweight. She looked intently at P and said, “There’s nothing wrong with your daughter. It’s you. You have a sickness.” Still, all in all, P. says that the influx of young couples is good for the neighborhood. The kids attend a separate school in a different city, but enroll in local preschools and afterschool activities.

Leader Michael Leitman responded to the claims in the Nana article, saying, “We take 10% tithe like every community synagogue in Bnei Brak.” This is disingenuous. Jewish sources recommend donating at least ten percent of income to charity, but no one expects the shul to get all of it. Former group members report that real numbers are closer to 20%.

Blogger Hezi Amiel writes that the kabbalah center has a sophisticated web presence and high ranking in search engines, making it difficult for potential members to find information critical of the group.

Here’s another useful link with information about kabbalah, cults and Bnei Baruch.

Read this intense personal account: Kabbalah La-Am Victim Shares His Story

Comments

  1. I studied cults rigorously. This is a cult. It was an accident waiting to happen. It has all the features of coersion, persuasion, an unattainable goal, separation, taxation, secrecy. Next will be sexual exploitation.

    I suggest you folks in Petach Tikva actually infiltrate, find a volunteer to become a “member” and sabatage. Let’s say your husband wanted to do this. He would hang out around there, peek inside. Someone will grab him. He should dress well. He says he’s having marital problems, feels the religion isn’t meeting his spiritual needs.

    That sort of thing.

    Your shul might want to invite someone like me (me!) to come in and talk about it. Lend me someone’s miles 🙂

  2. It certainly seems a strange bunch.

  3. We are most certainly a strange bunch, but we most definitely do not pay anything we don’t feel like paying, or are unable to pay, and this does in no way affect the treatment of anybody towards anybody else. We have very rich and powerful people, famous people, unemployed people, recovering addicts, sick people… Everybody is equally treated, and nobody is denied any “service”. Those who do not have resources are aided if they need so in order to procure their advancement. Regarding the “unattainable” goal, well, that may be the case for those who can’t attain it. The goal is certainly attainable, and has been so for many, or our group wouldn’t keep growing and growing and growing… But of course those who feel is not for them, will find it “unattainable”. That’s ok. It is those people who help us grow, and to whom we are most grateful.

  4. And that goal is what, exactly? I’m as tolerant as the next guy (woman) except when it comes to taking advantage of those who are down on their luck, who are perhaps in recovery. Suppose it’s all about the definition of advantage.

  5. Well, you sound like quite a reactionary folk here, doc, I wonder if you make a living with recovery therapy and you are afraid that Bnei Baruch is going to take away your patients (just kidding, word playing with your name, I hope you appreciate the humor). Actually, that is part of the goal, to have nobody that needs any therapy. The goal itself is quite simple. Bnei Baruch is the only interest free and below non profit organization that aims to provide people with all the tools they need to reach their fullest potential in life. Bnei Baruch not only believes but realizes the idea of freely giving to others, without any expectation of benefit for itself, and ideally that is the kind of world they aim at. The key word here is “freely”, which you seem to be missing, by calling them a “cult”. I can promise you that there are thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of Bnei Baruch friends all over the world, and as much as many would like to live in proximity to one another, Bnei Baruch encourages all to remain rooted in their traditions and geographical place, including religious, social and political associations, professional careers, and any private personal life that they may have prior to joining the “goal”. They never force or convince anybody by any means to remain associated with them, and as a matter of fact I have good friends that were originally in the group, and are no longer there.

    Anybody that wants further information, may post further questions here if they please. I will try to answer them as best I can.

    Thank you, and sorry to see you feel so defensive and hostile about the unknown.

    Marie

  6. If you know another stories were family relationship were destroyed by Bnei Baruch, please e-mail me dsmelyanskiy@yahoo.com
    Your information would really help me a lot to expose this cult and try to prevent my son from going to Bnei Baruch.

  7. Just a quick question… Doesn’t a “cult” infer that someone is getting hurt?

    Where are the people that have been hurt by Bnei Baruch? … Anyone?

  8. Does Bnei Baruch follow halachot of orthodox Judaism?

    • Ron, to some extent. According to the account they observe sabbath, holidays, and “family purity” laws. I don’t believe they follow normative Orthodox practice.

  9. If getting hurt is one of the requirements for a cult, Steven, I guess anything counts as one: that would be government, family, marriage, school, and pretty much any organization that brings a minimum of two people together in some form of association, since one is likely to “hurt” another the moment s/he refuses to do what the other one likes.

    To send Dmitry some kind of data to work with, I would ask him to look at his own family, as he is about to destroy his relationship with his son if he insists on fighting a Will way more powerful than his own.

    As to the question posed by Ron, I will tell you that we follow one and only law, that is the law of Love your neighbor as yourself, being is that which you do not want done to you, do not do on to others. Everything else is a result of it.

    Shalom,

    Marie

  10. Everytime people get together, there are always going to be disagreements in the way ideas are utilized. We can’t even keep peace in our own families half the time.

    Bnei Baruch is a group that is pushing for unity and world peace and asks nothing from their members… There is always going to be those who find reasons to point fingers, that’s the nature of our ego’s.

    I have been around the group for 2 years and have talked to a great majority of the members and instructors – all amazing people.

    Thats my $.02

  11. So we are on the same page, Steven. Great to hear we share this great understanding :))

  12. Marie – yes for sure. We all need to look inside and change, the outside is already perfect :_)

  13. Marie you are the Kabbalah Master! 🙂 Love you Steven

    LeChaim
    Eric

  14. Hello. Thank you for posting this information. As a new student of BB, I appreciate hearing both the good and the bad.

    I’m too new to have found anything I dislike about them. However, after years of soul searching among the goyim (Catholicism, Christianity, Messianic Judaism, etc.), I can honestly probably write a book about everyone of those groups and make them sound like cults.

    I’m not Jewish, though I consider myself a Noahide and study Torah, but I’ve also heard in many places that Orthodox Judaism is a cult too. As usually is the case; there are two or more sides to the story. I know Judaism isn’t a cult.

    Bottom line; there are bad apples in every bunch. I like what I’ve heard from BB so far, but will definitely keep the information you’ve posted in mind.

    I guess it’s also important to consider how we define “cult”.

    Shanah Tova!

    Peace,
    Miguel

  15. a member of the family is in b. baruch, since she started several years ago, we haven’t seen her on shabbat. her husband, who is a nice guy, we see even less. we recently attended a family wedding…she came with her 5 year old daughter… her husband didn’t come. her main point is that we know nothing,mitzvot are old rubbish… and we will soon discover what a great leader laitman is.
    another pr thing is all the famous people supporting the group. who cares? they are only human. bottom line; any group or individual who’s objective is to isolate you from your family or communityis abusive and sick even if it doesn’t hurt.

    lots of hatslaha exposing groups like this

    yours truly,
    nina

  16. It is not harmless. You are never enough aware of what will happen to you if you ever join with their lessons. Simply because they dont tell you that..ever…not in the start not later.. You will be feeling from paranoid to schizoid and you will even have suicidal attempts. You will want to hurt yourself and will never feel like yourself again. Your bodily and mental health will be at least temporarliy lost..if only you are lucky. they will always have front players and wont let the suffering and screaming heard. They have a very controlled sharing board, you will never have your voice heard to the new comers. You will totally isolated and pushed around.
    What I will advise you is to go back to your houses and play with your own pets get along with you have, have a friend or family share with you and to converse..or they will play with your sanity or physical health. it is never about choice once you are in there.Stay away if you dont want to get hurt.

  17. There is no explanations anywhere regarding the outer and inner circles. They only say that the courses are free and they never state the situations that you may go through. The motto that says `treat your neighbour as yourself` work both ways. They are the strong part when you enter as an individual. They treat you like they treat themselves and it is NOT pleasant. Some of the conditions take days and weeks to recover from. You wont be able to go to work and your relations with your family and friends may be severly damaged. only thing you will better understand is hatred. nothing more.it is not at all convenient for a person below 30. (for the person above considering his son) to get into there.No matter which circle they put you, it is complete misery what you will have to embrace. it is more like torture chamber.Once you are been into such a hell it really gets impossible to believe in a heaven. if I had a son I would really find a way to communicate that it is not healthy to be there.

  18. I only come to ditest the world israel only after meeting this cult. Please be careful and warn your loved ones.

  19. Steven Says that outside is perfect..that we have to change inside.
    I have seen them both inside and outside.They bring you to a place where you will have no hope of goodness and heaven and they will leave you there to find your way. After you are done with each of your cycles, you will be afraid of your environment,you will fail to see any goodness, you will detest and and dislike all your connections.You will know for sure that there is no god and heaven it is only those faking smiling people speaking smart lies and ruling the world saying that they have rich/smart people with themselves..and also the sick.. and They are always “loving their neighbours as they -love- themselves” and they never ever change.

    I come from a family where the mother would snacth her child and run for miles just to save her from a “bad smelling” sea and these people know what you will be feeling all along and they still persist with their methods and their smiling faking faces and they dared to hurt people for hundreds and thousands of years in a very systematic way. Any life, any way of destruction is better than having such a method directly applied on people who come them with an open heart just to “love their neihtb?ours as they love themselves”

    I am very sorry that I have met these people.

  20. It is a great missing piece for a method which calls itself science and not cult not to explain to people beforehand what sort of stages they may go through or how they may be affect with them.
    They are even trying to hide it by restricting their board sharing system and pushing on people with their assabembly of moderators who sees you like a thing and not like living – feeling human.

    I am very sorry for everyone who doesnt feel their life isnt good enough who feels hurt and goes to searching with this group and any other alike. I am very sorry that I couldnt and cant do a thing about this all.

  21. I who has felt and been sick mentally and physically during the torturesome study at Bnei Baruch hereby declare on behalf of those too who never had the strength to get here and say these that there is only one thing sick in this world and it is the kabbalistic method.

  22. Its defenders who pretends even to new comers about how it really goes during the stages are.. liars. They are feeding themselves on people`s sufferings fiancially and emotionally.. I am sorry that I wont call you sick or you would perhaps sue me through your rich and educated groups (you were very fond of jokes, Marie that was for you)

  23. Damla, you certainly seem to be going through a strong state. It could turn out to be a great revelation, if you just yielded to its realization, as you well know. That is called “annulling your ego”, which is not necessary cancelling it, like so many doctrines would request of you. Annulling yourself is simply what the Beatles sang a log time ago: “let it be”. Trust that there is a G-d that does good, and who is not you. Trust that our existence is for the better, despite the fact that we want to make it so bad as you insist on seeing. Trust that He will let you reach your potential, your goodness. If you can trust that (faith above reason), despite of how bad you are feeling, despite the negativity that you want to embrace by blaming others for it, if you can ask Him to let you join the good, with your family, with your friends, with this world, ask Him to let you get near Him, He will. If you were in BB, you have heard this over and over. Nobody can save you. Just Him. Pray to Him. Not to your Rav, not to your group. They are only His tools. Everything is only His message for you to seek his Mercy. Through them you will find Him, but not by their doing, but by His and your willingness to seek Him.

    We sue nobody. We do not use the name Bnei Baruch for any purposes other than kabbalistic studies and applications.

    Damla, it is very hard to recognize the nature of our reality. That is very much true. That’s why instead of denial, kabbalah offers a true solution. Of course, before we get to the solution we must formulate the problem. That’s the hardest part. It’s like any twelve-step program: until we abandon self-denial, and accept the problem is in us, we can’t begin any recovery. It wasn’t the bar tender who served us, it wasn’t the store that sold the alcohol, it wasn’t the party we attended, and the friends who drank with me. It is me who has an alcohol problem. Everybody else seems to be able to handle their drinking. Should alcohol be banned because I don’t know how to use it? Because I refuse to help myself? Because I refuse the help that is offered?

    We just had a great Kabbalistic convention that took place here in Israel. Over 7,000 of our friends from around the world came to celebrate the gathering of those who are seeking redemption in unity, and the unshakable sacred laws of life as written in the Torah. Reactions are bound to happen to people. They can be manifested as strong rejections, as in your case. But that’s only the back side, as you know, it’s the darkness that will allow the light to shine. Let it happen. Follow the Torah, not your ego.

    Kavana,

    Marie

  24. How do YOU let it be Marie? with such a bad sense of humour? What are you even doing here? Dont you have enough coercion established in your own grounds? What are you fighting for here? Dont you have all the fights and all the rules on your behalf in your own premises? is your name even really marie? Why cant you let the people speak and be? why dont you tell the truth to them just once?

  25. Who are you to speak of trust and revelation of goodness`? You could speak of those two when I first came to you with an open heart and full trust and what did you do with them? IF only you could just once annul your ego during all that time I spent there perhaps you would have your trust and revelation of goodness..at least among us two.

  26. I dont drink Alcohol. I think it is hightime that you must overview your own addictions.

  27. Damla, you are the one setting the terms of an issue in an aggressive and disrespectful manner. You are projecting your own inner state. Just as much as you have the right and desire to express yourself, everybody else, including me, is entitled to it. I never said that you have an alcohol problem. That’s just an example that can apply to your claim that because you have a problem with something, that “something” is bad. There is no “good” or “bad” event or circumstance, only a “good” or “bad” use of it. A pencil seems harmless enough, yet it can be a lethal weapon if used to pierce somebody’s eyes with it.

    In order to understand about what is “good” or “bad” Kabbalah sets us up with a method, that you can either follow or not. The first step is to reach a perception (understanding) of the nature of the problem about distinguishing between good and bad (intentions). If you refuse to detach your own emotions from the study you will not be able to have a clear mind to receive the understanding. That’s just like any science. Scientists must not judge whether what they are observing in an experiment is something they like or dislike. They must put their feelings aside, register the facts as they find them and try to analyze them as indicated by their method.

    A doctor may not like the consequences that a disease is having on a patient, or even on herself, but she must be able to transcend her emotions if she wants to follow the path to a cure. She could fall into despair from the condition, or she could focus on the desire to recover.

    Nobody said Kabbalah would be easy. A thousand go in, and only one becomes a kabbalist. That’s how the saying goes.

    “This is achieved specifically by saying that one needs a society so as to be able to give to one’s friend without any reward. In other words, he does not need a society so the society would give him assistance and gifts, which would make the body’s vessels of reception content. Such a society is built on self-love and prompts only the development of his vessels of reception, as now he sees an opportunity to gain more possessions through his friend’s assistance to obtain corporeal possessions.

    Instead, we must remember that the society was established on the basis of love of others, so each member would receive from the group the love of others and hatred of himself. And seeing that his friend is straining to annul his self and to love others would cause everyone to be integrated in their friends’ intentions. Thus, if the society is made of ten members, for example, each will have ten forces practicing self-annulment, hatred of self, and love of others. Otherwise, one remains with but a single force of love of others, since he does not see that the friends are practicing it, since the friends are practicing love of others in concealment.

    On the contrary, the friends make him lose his strength in his desire to walk the path of loving others. In that state, he learns from their actions and falls into the dominion of self-love.” FROM: Rabash’s article “Concerning the Love of Friends”

  28. For your information, I am not reading you Marie..
    Your only concern is not even that others are reading it…isnt it?

    Anyone who doesnt care about the individual can not care about the group..and these folks are talking about world peace as they torture people.

    What would happen if you had just taken my consent by presenting the stages to me clearly beforehand..what would happen do you think?

    People, stay away from this cult.

    I hope that you laugh at their silly jokes and walk away.

  29. “Anyone who doesnt care about the individual can not care about the group”

    Beautifully said. It’s good to see that we do not think so differently after all. We just do things in a completely different manner. Some think that they go around doing good, when in fact do the most harm, others have the impression that they are owed all the attention, and they get it, just like you are getting it now. But now that it has been established where you stand, and where BB stands, I think I am done feeding into your desire for the spot light. Queen has a song: “Too much love will kill you”. You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNWnhO1CDQg It may do you good.

    Marie

  30. you are the members of thousands of years of old teaching…I am only a 36 old individual. I suppose you will better find a way to get by with that harm whichever `I caused`.
    Being so big and so old and so `revealed` it is only your mistake if you cant pick your `damaging inner circle` wisely. whatever that is.

  31. and for your video..it is outdated as yourselves..take a look at this, it is brand new.

  32. If I am getting all the attention lets conclude it that way… in this sprituality if really what goes around comes around and if you even accidently hurt someone else as you hurt me, I swear I find you somewhere in eternity and make you pay for that.

  33. `But now that it has been established where you stand, and where BB stands`

    Wait a minute, even I dont know where I stand after all those winding roads, confusions and hell trespassings. How do you know that?
    Either come to me with clear explanations and evidence or cut the crap.

  34. There was this new course schedule beginning in some months later in BB.
    I recently asked them why there is still no general warning anywhere in the announcements for the new comers regarding the “side affects” of the what they call “study”.
    I asked the question on their “sharing board” system. I simply asked why there is no general warning regarding stages of the study..or if there is anything peculiar with my case that I may understand that it is specific to me and thus needs no general warning for others.
    I am expecting that you can guess right from here on..neither my question nor any answer was “shared” with the viewers of the board. I received no answer.

    They are talkative here because their method works in bizzare ways, not because they care about me or about you..See how they are attaching an article where there seems no relevance to the actual question asked or idea needs clarification. They can pretty much well answer your question to share their “caring” or “understanding” with you but they dont do this..they wont.Just to the contrary they will mislead you.
    it is what I said it is. A torture chamber.

    Ok, Marie, now you know where I and Bnei Baruch or any kabbalah school stands.

  35. btw, for the board owner..I think it would be nice of thinking of an edit button or a delete button for the post owners..you are taking the “property” of people and acting like they cant take it back by restricting the post editing and deleting.
    Not that I want to take back anything I said here. I never said anything that I didnt feel to my bones. but isnt it just that some guys would really want take to it all back when they feel that their property feels like it stinks?
    But this doesnt mean that you must HOPE for the existence of such guys, though. No. I am not that cruel.

    • Damla–I set up the option. Let me know if you see it. But anytime you write something on the internet, you should assume it’s there for eternity.

      • As I said I personally dont need it, thus I am not going after it looking for.
        before knowing about eternity I am just guessing this as a plain person: when you are bold enough to make or build something and put it before the eyes and minds of the others, through internet or elsewhere in or throughout the world, you shouldnt be assuming that others will check and correct it with their lives,effort, money or time.

  36. I accidently happened to notice after writing the note.edit and delete buttons seem to be functional right after you post the message. They disappear later.

    Actually, as I said as a reply to your personal mail that I dont think you are very far from Bnei Baruch. I know how they act and treat people and things.. smiling and smart well planned outside and undercover going on with the nasties which cant go unnoticed after a while. Excuse me if I cant respond to your `kindness`. Well, actually you must before me excuse Bnei Baruch for doing this too.
    it is getting really difficult like jews after them.

  37. no. your buttons are not functional.

  38. “Damla November 15, 2010 at 9:19 PM `But now that it has been established where you stand, and where BB stands`Wait a minute, even I dont know where I stand after all those winding roads, confusions and hell trespassings. How do you know that?”

    “Damla November 23, 2010 at 4:45 PM Ok, Marie, now you know where I and Bnei Baruch or any kabbalah school stands.”

    As you can read by your own posts, it was you who didn’t know where you stood. I did. If you want to know how I knew it, I’ll tell you: I study Kabbalah very hard. 🙂

    “..neither my question nor any answer was “shared” with the viewers of the board. I received no answer.”

    As to why people don’t do things the way you demand from them, it’s probably because they don’t consider your suggestions or inquiries appropriate, accurate or relevant. That’s just an honest answer in case you were honestly wondering. But if it would help satisfy your need for running everybody’s business I will suggest that you go on as many websites as you can, and drop your suggestions as to how they should run their organizations, see how many post them publicly, and then of those, how many actually implement them. Afterwards you can come back and give us statistics that proof that Bnei Baruch behaves as a cult, in contrast with all those other organizations that did what you told them to do.

    Marie

  39. I was not here to ask you or the owner of the board to do me a favour. I am far beyond belief to realize you are incapable of doing this.
    I was here for the others..(the children..that you fry in pans..thats what you know about kids. you would never dare to make examples in your speeches with kids..that was your biggest mistake) who cant see this and who would fall for a painful experience..with you.

    Your sense of humour really sucks thats why I know you are studying kabbalah for a very long time even before you even say it..before you learn to say the truth, it is impossible to make a joke.

  40. it was not a question about how you run your website. it was a question about how you treated people and it is infecious. I need no statistics after seeing you really. I see no reason why all organizations are not plain sickness after witnessing how stubbornly you insisted on hurting people undercover.there is two way to kill a man, one is with a shot gun out in the open, the other is your way..it is amazing to see how only the first group is in a prison and is thought to be despicable.this raises them to the level of saints in my eyes after seeing how you operate.because in your killing there is no resting in peace for the victim.

    “Damla November 15, 2010 at 9:19 PM `But now that it has been established where you stand, and where BB stands`Wait a minute, even I dont know where I stand after all those winding roads, confusions and hell trespassings. How do you know that?”

    it was a question.you could answer that. you could answer that even when I first walked in.

  41. what kind of an ego and guts it is to come to a place and argue with a person who is saying they are suffering because you have chosen to lie all along?
    if I had any force to stop this and if I did use it like you stopped my voice in your premises, I guess that would really be “me”.

  42. “Bnei Baruch is a group that is pushing for unity and world peace and asks nothing from their members… There is always going to be those who find reasons to point fingers, that’s the nature of our ego’s.”

    did I read that just right? you are “pushing” for world peace and unity but “asking nothing” from your members?

    untill the next life when you will stop pointing that finger yourself..

  43. “Bnei Baruch is a group that is pushing for unity and world peace and asks nothing from their members… ”

    Actually this needs qualification. BB does not have any political or social agenda whatsoever. Its students are free, in their own personal choices independent from BB, to participate in any charitable enterprise, or political party of any sort, or in any religion or any other cultural or social practice they so choose to pursue. Each individual is in no way demanded to contribute unwilling or disguised financial support, or any support whatsoever. Participation and affiliation to BB is not at all exclusive of other affiliations, just as any student of physics would not be required by their university to give anything up other than the time and effort they themselves choose to allocate for their own ambition regarding the study. Bnei Baruch cannot provide any guidelines regarding behavior towards other individuals or towards society in general.

    Bnei Baruch is a global community of people from every nation of the world that gathers on a regular basis to study Kabbalah as an applied science. As in any study, many discover once they start that Kabbalah is not something they are either qualified nor interested in pursuing. If that happens to a student, it is by no means Bnei Baruch’s practice to make an attempt to convince them to stay.

    Marie

  44. When will you decide what you should mean by what you say when you are manupilating people’s rights to live? literally, I mean..

    “Bnei Baruch is a global community of people from every nation of the world that gathers on a regular basis to study Kabbalah as an applied science….”
    “If that happens to a student, it is by no means Bnei Baruch’s practice to make an attempt to convince them to stay.”

    But being an applied science you know what makes the attempt to make them stay after that point. Dont you?

    I was thinking of suicidal cults lately..mass suicides. Sounds crazy to you? Well, not to me and not any more than this “friendly group” that Bnei baruch is.
    Their methods rings so merciful and sane to me after you.

  45. Anyone is suppose to be still free -I am guessing- to read the descriptions of cult..a destructive cult here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_cult

    and can compare it with my experience as is told here..
    Please pay attention to this part in the above link if you are considering any membership to this cult or to any other alike.
    “It uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members).”[2]”

  46. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_person_syndrome
    “The condition explains why abused people may not seek assistance from others, fight their abuser, or leave the abusive situation. Sufferers may have low self-esteem, and are often led to believe that the abuse is their fault. Such persons may refuse to press charges against their abuser, or refuse all offers of help, perhaps even becoming aggressive or abusive to others who attempt to offer assistance. ”

    and this is for you Marie, perhaps it could help you (if you are still free to read and act and trust others for the help they offer after your “treatment” there..)

  47. “But being an applied science you know what makes the attempt to make them stay after that point. Dont you?”

    No I do not. I am an applied linguist and sociologist myself, and I have no idea what you are talking about. Will you please elaborate?

    “and this is for you Marie, perhaps it could help you (if you are still free to read and act and trust others for the help they offer after your “treatment” there..)”

    As my professional field indicates (please, see above), not only am I free, but indeed required to perform a broad range of readings and observe many behaviors, philosophical and political theories, and human interactions, some with which I agree, and some with which I do not agree. I work in collaboration with a variety of professionals, including lawyers, politicians, teachers and other scientists. The scientific community would be very puzzled and at a loss following your logic and random terminology and approach, but you can certainly try to clarify yourself in a way that makes sense to all, instead of just to yourself. We are always eager to learn.

    As to my personal trust, you are correct, I am free to place it where I find reason to do so. Although now this has just become more of my own personal tendencies. When it comes to Bnei Baruch, nobody needs to be a scientist to join. They just need to have the desire to apply themselves in the particular method, as much as a person that wants to keep a healthy diet would want to apply themselves into the methodology of a particular nutritional program. Everybody is free to choose the diet that best suits them or none at all, and if they choose one they don’t have to be nutritional expert, although chances are that in following the diet, and getting informed, they will also gained a lot of knowledge about it, plus a lot of health.

    To your good health, Dalma.

    Marie

  48. Damla, this video may help you with the kind of language and behavior that scientists, philosophers and those involved in human rational discussions understand.

    Marie
    Siteowner here: I removed the link to the video.

  49. There has been times I was trying to elaborate to you my questions and needs and how have you responded to them..shall we remember?

    `As to why people don’t do things the way you demand from them, it’s probably because they don’t consider your suggestions or inquiries appropriate, accurate or relevant. That’s just an honest answer in case you were honestly wondering. But if it would help satisfy your need for running everybody’s business I will suggest that you go on as many websites as you can, and drop your suggestions as to how they should run their organizations, see how many post them publicly, and then of those, how many actually implement them.`

    So, if you are seeking my trust to answer you this time, you should have provided me with required environment of trust before hand..Everything I wrote here is just to indicate that you very well avoided doing this.

    So if science is your business where you as well will hint that you didnt tested your thousands of years `teaching`s stages and outcomes, then it means it is really your `business.`

    Instead I will begin from here..since my business seems like not your business at all although I have been to that place and has been through it all.

    `Marie – yes for sure. We all need to look inside and change, the outside is already perfect :_)`

    this is what Steven had said above, you can also recognize it by the smiley..
    I will begin from here and will question this

  50. Both you and I and him have been to bnei baruch..right? and you two are saying that you are very exterior to me you even fail to recognize and justify my experience..I on the other hand recognize you..you are no different from anyone I know..you are lying and trying make your `business` turn around..lets for a scientific observation try this..being my exterior you try to be like me and see if you are getting perfect.

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