The Shabbat bath dilemma
In the last comment thread Lion of Zion asks when should parents force children to do things.
The short answer is, “Never.” At least not in an ideal world.
For the record, there is a movement entitled “non-coercive parenting.” Its proponents believe that children are individuals and adults never have the right to inflict their desires on to their children.
I don’t believe in non-coercive parenting as I have seen it described. However, I do want to avoid situations where I have to force my children to “cooperate.” I want to have the kind of relationship where they will naturally want to go along with me on most issues, especially day-to-day routines. That’s not easy with a three-year-old.
When our children don’t do what we want, we experience a range of emotions. Frustration, because dealing with the refusal takes time and effort that we hadn’t anticipated. Disappointment, because our children are not as well-behaved and congenial as we expected. And guilt, because maybe if we had done our job better, things wouldn’t be this way.
Here’s an example. It’s late Friday afternoon and the 3-year-old needs a bath, but he has decided he doesn’t want one. Let’s say it’s ten minutes until candle-lighting (or sunset, take your pick) and he hasn’t had a bath all week.
If this were ever to happen to me (!) I would ask myself several questions:
- What will be the consequences of him not having a bath?
- What effect will forcing him have in the short and long term?
- What effect will it have on me?
In answer to the first question: Barring exceptional circumstances there aren’t any health or safety consequences if the child won’t take a bath for another couple of days. (If he doesn’t want to wear his seatbelt, the answer would be different.) Now if you are all invited to Aunt Shprintza’s for lunch the next day, and she already thinks that your child is neglected and this pains you, you might take that into consideration. Or not.
Regarding question number two, a lot depends on the child’s personality and his relationship with his parents. There are some children who, were they forced to take a bath, would continue to scream for hours on end and dig their heels in even more the next time. But some children will protest mildly but go along. If you essentially have a good relationship with the child, you might get away with something like this once in a while. But if you find yourself doing this frequently something needs to change.
The answer to question three is an important consideration for me. Ten minutes before Shabbat is not the most peaceful time of my week. If I force the child to take a bath when we are in a hurry, I might be harsher than necessary. Also, I don’t want to come into Shabbat angry and stressed. For me, it’s better to take a deep breath and step back from the situation. My equanimity is more important than a clean child.
Whatever the parents do, the decision-making isn’t finished. They will need to sit down and think of ideas to prevent this situation in the future? Maybe the child was tired or hungry, or he’s just petrified of getting soap in his eyes. Maybe he’s been trying to get his parents’ attention all day. Probably the parents need to find a better bath time. ?
Shabbat shalom.
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Deanne Said,
April 4, 2008 - 28 Adar II 5768 @ 5:08 PM
I definitely agree on “picking your battles” based on consequences/dangers/cost-benefit of struggling, but I think that with basic responsibilities (such as bathing) the parent needs to be responsible for convincing the child to do what’s best.
My theory is that if a child knows that he always has a bath on Friday afternoon before shabbos, then that should become part of the routine. If a child knows that he just has to kvetch a little and he can get to do what he wants (ie not take the bath) then what will he do next time he doesn’t want to do something that’s more important?
In our house, what we’ve done is move the baths to Thursday night in the winter and right after they get home from school on Friday when it’s not shabbos at 4.
(oh, and just found your blog, so sorry for the first time commenting without a long intro)
mominisrael Said,
April 5, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 6:45 PM
Hi Deanne,
Thanks for visiting.
I hear that you are saying that by letting the child get away with not taking the bath, we set ourselves up for him to refuse every time we have a normal request.
If this only happens once in a while and the parents can enforce their routine without getting overly emotional, maybe. But if they find themselves resorting to force regularly I think they need to look at the bigger picture.
Abbi Said,
April 5, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 9:30 PM
Hmm, I guess it depends on what you mean by “force”. If a child refuses to clean up and as a consequence loses something of value- time to see a favorite dvd, a beloved toy, is that force? You certainly can’t physically “force” a child to clean up (believe me, one bleary eyed morning when I was trying to tidy up before the cleaner came, I actually tried this with my 2 year old. It didn’t work.) So is forcing with consequences considered the same thing?
I’m also all for picking battles, but I agree that matter of fact routine is best. I don’t always do it, but I recognize the value.
triLcat Said,
April 5, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 10:40 PM
It’s an interesting question/example.
Probably, if faced with the situation, I would look for some sort of compromise – eg a super-quick shower instead of a whole drawn out bath.
However, as a parent, I would kind of see it as a mess-up if my child went 6 days without a bath. I know they don’t get that dirty, but I still think a kid should be bathed 2-3 times a week.
Leora Said,
April 6, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 4:15 AM
Baths. Yes. We’ve definitely struggled with those!
Regarding getting your kid to do stuff, no easy answers, but in general, trying to get the kids to WANT to do something always makes life easier. (fyi, this has never worked with baths, except for one son who complains about sweatiness so willingly then takes a shower). Example: “Who here is big and strong and can carry laundry upstairs? Na, you’re not strong enough…” Suddenly, my laundry is upstairs!
Leora Said,
April 6, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 4:22 AM
Oh, and thank you, Lion of Zion, for this suggestion.
May I suggest some of you Mom in Israel readers go to Lion of Zion’s blog and comment on his Shabbos Making Machine post. I think his regular layning readers took a look at that and said what? kitchen? shabbos prep? Isn’t preparing the layning our Shabbos prep?
mominisrael Said,
April 6, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 7:18 AM
Abbi, in this post I was talking about physically forcing. I couldn’t “force” my child to participate in the siddur party.
TC: I’m not advocating once-weekly baths.
Leora: My kids go through stages with baths. And I read LOZ, by the way.
Rafi G Said,
April 6, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 7:32 AM
utopia
Jameel @ The Muqata Said,
April 6, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 9:17 AM
How about Brushing Teeth?
Recently, I had to take my 5 year old son to the doctor for vaccinations he didn’t want (can you blame him?)
While I convinced him to go with me, and sit down, when the needle appeared I had to really hold him down for the injection and he flailed his arms and legs.
Needless to say, he wasn’t a happy camper.
triLcat Said,
April 6, 2008 - 1 Nisan 5768 @ 3:03 PM
I agree that physical force is best used extremely sparingly (eg. your child wants to run into the street, touch a hot stove, etc)
In this situation, I would look for any way in which the child would agree to take the bath without unreasonable threats or physical force. (eg “you can’t go to shul/wear shabbat clothes/light candles/make hamotzi if you haven’t had a bath” or “do you want to take a shower with Mom/Dad?” or whatever you think will appeal to your child.)
I don’t think I’d use physical force to get a child to take a bath, but I might well tell them that they would lose privileges if they didn’t take a bath.
Batya Said,
April 7, 2008 - 2 Nisan 5768 @ 5:21 AM
Life requires doing things you don’t want to do. Can you “keep Shabbat” on a Wed. and behave on shabbat as if it’s Wed.?
There are things we have choices about, and there are things we don’t have a choice. That’s life. There’s less arguing when a kid is made to understand that early. Eat your soup for dessert; wear flowers and stripes. Big deal.
Deanne Said,
April 7, 2008 - 3 Nisan 5768 @ 11:27 PM
Just to clarify, I certainly didn’t mean that someone should physically put the child in the tub and scrub him/her down while he was screaming. What we’ve done is give a couple of choices like “come nicely and mommy will make the water with bubbles and you can play, or daddy will give you a quick shower” That tends to work with my little ones, not so good once they hit like 3rd or 4th grade.
I also agree that if you’re butting up against the same fight over and over again something else needs to be done. We’ve had that with bedtime lately, so we came up with an incentive plan which so far seems to be working. . . .