Comments on: The Shabbat bath dilemma

By: Deanne

Deanne — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:27:12 +0000

Just to clarify, I certainly didn’t mean that someone should physically put the child in the tub and scrub him/her down while he was screaming. What we’ve done is give a couple of choices like “come nicely and mommy will make the water with bubbles and you can play, or daddy will give you a quick shower” That tends to work with my little ones, not so good once they hit like 3rd or 4th grade.
I also agree that if you’re butting up against the same fight over and over again something else needs to be done. We’ve had that with bedtime lately, so we came up with an incentive plan which so far seems to be working. . . .

By: Batya

Batya — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:21:21 +0000

Life requires doing things you don’t want to do. Can you “keep Shabbat” on a Wed. and behave on shabbat as if it’s Wed.?
There are things we have choices about, and there are things we don’t have a choice. That’s life. There’s less arguing when a kid is made to understand that early. Eat your soup for dessert; wear flowers and stripes. Big deal.

By: triLcat

triLcat — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:03:18 +0000

I agree that physical force is best used extremely sparingly (eg. your child wants to run into the street, touch a hot stove, etc)
In this situation, I would look for any way in which the child would agree to take the bath without unreasonable threats or physical force. (eg “you can’t go to shul/wear shabbat clothes/light candles/make hamotzi if you haven’t had a bath” or “do you want to take a shower with Mom/Dad?” or whatever you think will appeal to your child.)
I don’t think I’d use physical force to get a child to take a bath, but I might well tell them that they would lose privileges if they didn’t take a bath.

By: Jameel @ The Muqata

Jameel @ The Muqata — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:17:05 +0000

How about Brushing Teeth?
Recently, I had to take my 5 year old son to the doctor for vaccinations he didn’t want (can you blame him?)
While I convinced him to go with me, and sit down, when the needle appeared I had to really hold him down for the injection and he flailed his arms and legs.
Needless to say, he wasn’t a happy camper.

By: Rafi G

Rafi G — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:32:11 +0000

utopia

By: mominisrael

mominisrael — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:18:30 +0000

Abbi, in this post I was talking about physically forcing. I couldn’t “force” my child to participate in the siddur party.
TC: I’m not advocating once-weekly baths.
Leora: My kids go through stages with baths. And I read LOZ, by the way.

By: Leora

Leora — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:22:14 +0000

Oh, and thank you, Lion of Zion, for this suggestion.
May I suggest some of you Mom in Israel readers go to Lion of Zion’s blog and comment on his Shabbos Making Machine post. I think his regular layning readers took a look at that and said what? kitchen? shabbos prep? Isn’t preparing the layning our Shabbos prep?

By: Leora

Leora — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:15:53 +0000

Baths. Yes. We’ve definitely struggled with those!
Regarding getting your kid to do stuff, no easy answers, but in general, trying to get the kids to WANT to do something always makes life easier. (fyi, this has never worked with baths, except for one son who complains about sweatiness so willingly then takes a shower). Example: “Who here is big and strong and can carry laundry upstairs? Na, you’re not strong enough…” Suddenly, my laundry is upstairs!

By: triLcat

triLcat — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:40:50 +0000

It’s an interesting question/example.
Probably, if faced with the situation, I would look for some sort of compromise – eg a super-quick shower instead of a whole drawn out bath.
However, as a parent, I would kind of see it as a mess-up if my child went 6 days without a bath. I know they don’t get that dirty, but I still think a kid should be bathed 2-3 times a week.

By: Abbi

Abbi — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:30:31 +0000

Hmm, I guess it depends on what you mean by “force”. If a child refuses to clean up and as a consequence loses something of value- time to see a favorite dvd, a beloved toy, is that force? You certainly can’t physically “force” a child to clean up (believe me, one bleary eyed morning when I was trying to tidy up before the cleaner came, I actually tried this with my 2 year old. It didn’t work.) So is forcing with consequences considered the same thing?
I’m also all for picking battles, but I agree that matter of fact routine is best. I don’t always do it, but I recognize the value.